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Thread: Cowherd Roasts Tomlin Nuthugger

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Bullshit. I've read Dan's book and listened to his interview. Cowher and several people from the FO were discussing a few players. They had taken nobody off the board. Dan said he steered the conversation back to Ben but he didn't force them to take him. If Cowher didn't want him he wouldn't have been drafted. That's what the power struggle with Donahoe was all about. If Cowher couldn't get his players he wasn't going to stay. Cowher had a lot of say over the draft.
    A big reason Cowher took a lot of shit for the 2004 draft is that he pretty openly had a hard on for Phillip Rivers, and the narrative he did not want Ben was largely fueled by that.

    As you implied, there's no way the Steelers do not draft Ben without Cowher being on board with it, and there was really no shame in preferring Rivers over Ben, as Rivers is a borderline HOFer having spent his career with the freaking Chargers.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Punxsutawney View Post
    A big reason Cowher took a lot of shit for the 2004 draft is that he pretty openly had a hard on for Phillip Rivers, and the narrative he did not want Ben was largely fueled by that.

    As you implied, there's no way the Steelers do not draft Ben without Cowher being on board with it, and there was really no shame in preferring Rivers over Ben, as Rivers is a borderline HOFer having spent his career with the freaking Chargers.
    Coming out of College, Rivers was listed as NFL ready from day 1, Ben was raw, but listed as having a higher ceiling. Also Rivers was the NCAA all time wins leader I think.

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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Coryea View Post
    Coming out of College, Rivers was listed as NFL ready from day 1, Ben was raw, but listed as having a higher ceiling. Also Rivers was the NCAA all time wins leader I think.

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    And Cowher preferred Andrew's over Ben.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwright View Post
    And Cowher preferred Andrew's over Ben.
    Again you don't know that. You're assuming that. But even if he did that didn't mean he disregarded QBs since he wanted Rivers. Maybe he didn't think Ben was that good? But that doesn't mean he devalued the QB position as a whole, which is your entire argument.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwright View Post
    And Cowher preferred Andrew's over Ben.
    Where's the proof?

    Here's a fact. 04-06 Cowher won 5 postseason games with Ben. Tomlin 10-19 has won 3 postseasons with Ben.

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  6. #66
    I highly doubt Roethlisberger was ahead of Rivers on many boards that year.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerSask View Post
    I highly doubt Roethlisberger was ahead of Rivers on many boards that year.
    And? He should have been with his much higher ceiling, and Rivers' already seen floor. I'm just glad it worked out the way it did, and Mr. Dan Rooney stepped in to get the conversation going back in Roethlisberger's direction.
    "Madness is the exception in individuals but the rule in groups" - Nietzsche

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  8. #68
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    I was about the only one on this board who wanted Rivers. TMC had everyone convinced Rivers had a weird throwing motion and it was a flaw. Living in NC I had seen a lot of Rivers at NC State, this board was familiar with Ben at Miami of Ohio.

    If we had drafted Rivers we would have won some Super Bowls. No Doubt in my mind, but I love Ben and I am so glad that he is our QB and not Rivers.

    During the 2004 draft, Donahoe, at that time exiled to Buffalo and picking at #13, was desperately trying to trade up before the Steelers to get Ben. He thought he had a deal with Atlanta, but they took Deangelo Hall, also a target of the Steelers.

    Once CB Dunta Robinson was selected it was pretty much between Andrews and Ben. We looked at our needs, saw what was left in the pantry, and selected a HOF QB.

    Donahoe panicked after the Steelers drafted Ben and traded back up into the first round to select a QB, JP Losman-Tulane

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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Again you don't know that. You're assuming that. But even if he did that didn't mean he disregarded QBs since he wanted Rivers. Maybe he didn't think Ben was that good? But that doesn't mean he devalued the QB position as a whole, which is your entire argument.
    Every article that I read at the time stated Cowher wanted Andrews. Was I privy to who Cowher actually wanted? Nope. I am guessing neither were you though.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Coryea View Post
    Where's the proof?

    Here's a fact. 04-06 Cowher won 5 postseason games with Ben. Tomlin 10-19 has won 3 postseasons with Ben.

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    Again. I am not arguing the whole Tomlin vs Cowher angle you and a few are. I could care less. If you look at Cowher built teams it is clear to me he devalued the QB position. Just how I see it. Obviously you see it differently and want to shout about Tomlin's record with Ben vs Cowher's. Blah blah blah. Fuck Tomlin and fuck the whole Cowher/Tomlin comparison anymore. Shit is fucking old. I remember when everyone on here was shouting to fire Cowher also. Now he is some Saint. Time to move on from him dude. Hopefully we move on from Tomlin soon also. A little dream I believe a bunch on thois board ALL have.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwright View Post
    Every article that I read at the time stated Cowher wanted Andrews. Was I privy to who Cowher actually wanted? Nope. I am guessing neither were you though.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2016/s...passed-big-ben

    Colbert: "Coach [Bill] Cowher unselfishly made the statement that, for the sake of the organization, if a quarterback is available, we should give it serious thought. Was that the most immediate need? No, because we didn't plan on Ben playing his rookie year. ... Tommy [Maddox] gets hurt in the first game, the rest was history."

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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerFan448 View Post
    Hmmm. I don't see anything there that might say that Cowher didn't prefer Andrews over Ben....but thanks for the link.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerFan448 View Post
    And take it a step farther now. Colbert stated that Cowher said that if a young QB is available that they should give it serious thought. So with Ben available and the Steelers on the clock as stated in Dan's book as Vader stated.... Dan had to steer the conversation BACK to Ben. If it was Rivers there it would have been him. It is just that Cowher had Andrews above Ben and below Rivers.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwright View Post
    And take it a step farther now. Colbert stated that Cowher said that if a young QB is available that they should give it serious thought. So with Ben available and the Steelers on the clock as stated in Dan's book as Vader stated.... Dan had to steer the conversation BACK to Ben. If it was Rivers there it would have been him. It is just that Cowher had Andrews above Ben and below Rivers.
    Again you assume things you don't know. Dan steered the conversation but it never says who's talking. You assume Cowher liked Andrews but you don't know that. It could have been Colbert that wanted Andrews and then Dan steered the conversation back to Ben. You are reading way too much into this.

    And again, to the point you won't answer, that doesn't mean Cowher devalued the QB position as a whole. Which was your entire argument. Now you flipped to "Cowher didn't want Ben". Which is an entirely different argument.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Again you assume things you don't know. Dan steered the conversation but it never says who's talking. You assume Cowher liked Andrews but you don't know that. It could have been Colbert that wanted Andrews and then Dan steered the conversation back to Ben. You are reading way too much into this.

    And again, to the point you won't answer, that doesn't mean Cowher devalued the QB position as a whole. Which was your entire argument. Now you flipped to "Cowher didn't want Ben". Which is an entirely different argument.
    And again...you don't know either. Cowher's history of trotting out the QB's he did without ever trying to truly upgrade the position is where I believe he didn't value the QB position. Pretty simple actually. That is MY stance. Am I correct? Maybe. Maybe not. As far as Cowher wanting Andrews over Ben? The articles I read back then stated that. Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not. While I don't know the actual truth neither do you. So All I am stating as I stated before is that this is MY opinion.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by stillwright View Post
    And again...you don't know either. Cowher's history of trotting out the QB's he did without ever trying to truly upgrade the position is where I believe he didn't value the QB position. Pretty simple actually. That is MY stance. Am I correct? Maybe. Maybe not. As far as Cowher wanting Andrews over Ben? The articles I read back then stated that. Is it true? Maybe. Maybe not. While I don't know the actual truth neither do you. So All I am stating as I stated before is that this is MY opinion.
    But your opinion totally disregards facts that you don't like. IF Cowher didn't value the position then why did he want Rivers? It makes no sense. My opinion is based on 4 things:

    1. Cowher was willing to draft a QB high. Even Ben because he was in the discussion and Cowher had a ton of power and could have drafted him if he wanted him.

    2. Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 years, Kordell started most of 6 and Ben started 3. That's almost 13 years with young QBs. At the time everyone loved Kordell. I had arguments everyday on here with people that would have bitched if Cowher had drafted a QB while Kordell was still here. The owner loved him, the fans loved him, my guess is you loved him.

    3. Tell me the QB you would have drafted and when without massive hindsight. He never had the chance to draft a QB very high because they mostly sucked. If he had drafted Kyle Boller over Troy would that be better? Maybe he could evaluate QBs pretty well and knew these guys weren't that good?

    4. Your entire opinion is based on what you think Cowher felt. Nobody can know that. My opinion is based on what everyone knows and is easily seen. Again Cowher had a power struggle with Donahoe. Cowher could draft whoever he wanted. If you are right then if Cowher really wanted Andrews then Andrews would have been drafted. That isn't my opinion. That's fact because the entire issue with Donahoe was the draft. Cowher wasn't going to stay if he couldn't have more input over the draft after the Edwards disaster. Which is why Rooney says that he didn't tell them to draft Ben. He just steered the conversation back around.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    But your opinion totally disregards facts that you don't like. IF Cowher didn't value the position then why did he want Rivers? It makes no sense. My opinion is based on 4 things:

    1. Cowher was willing to draft a QB high. Even Ben because he was in the discussion and Cowher had a ton of power and could have drafted him if he wanted him.

    2. Cowher had O'Donnell for 4 years, Kordell started most of 6 and Ben started 3. That's almost 13 years with young QBs. At the time everyone loved Kordell. I had arguments everyday on here with people that would have bitched if Cowher had drafted a QB while Kordell was still here. The owner loved him, the fans loved him, my guess is you loved him.

    3. Tell me the QB you would have drafted and when without massive hindsight. He never had the chance to draft a QB very high because they mostly sucked. If he had drafted Kyle Boller over Troy would that be better? Maybe he could evaluate QBs pretty well and knew these guys weren't that good?

    4. Your entire opinion is based on what you think Cowher felt. Nobody can know that. My opinion is based on what everyone knows and is easily seen. Again Cowher had a power struggle with Donahoe. Cowher could draft whoever he wanted. If you are right then if Cowher really wanted Andrews then Andrews would have been drafted. That isn't my opinion. That's fact because the entire issue with Donahoe was the draft. Cowher wasn't going to stay if he couldn't have more input over the draft after the Edwards disaster. Which is why Rooney says that he didn't tell them to draft Ben. He just steered the conversation back around.
    LOL. You got me. So for first 9/10th of his coaching career he devalued theQB. Then maybe he saw how he came up a tad short every year.

  18. #78
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    We were always seeking that healthy balance between run and pass. Never could attain it until BB and then probably got too pass oriented after Cowher left, IMO.

    O'Donnell was a perfect fit for that style. Usually made the passes when he had to and generally kept us on the plus side of the turnover ratio. Would have been great to have BB for that pass to Foster against SD and in SB XXX, but he would have been a little too green.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Coryea View Post
    Where's the proof?

    Here's a fact. 04-06 Cowher won 5 postseason games with Ben. Tomlin 10-19 has won 3 postseasons with Ben.

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    https://thesportsdaily.com/2017/04/1...oethlisberger/

    I guess it was extrapolated from Rooney's comments.

  20. #80
    Dan Rooney himself said he didn't force them to pick Ben.


    Again everyone says Cowher didn't do anything to upgrade the QB position. Who should he have taken? He can't just snap his fingers and get Manning.
    He tried to get Marino in 1999.


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